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Subject: The Iraq War- History Lesson


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Original Message                 Date: 03-Nov-04  @  09:02 PM   -   The Iraq War- History Lesson

S1GNALRUNNERS - Andrew

Posts: 1071

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Flame me but alot of people who post in the lounge section don't know why republicans support the iraq war.

September 11th- Radical Muslims attack the united states and they finally get a taste of what terrorism is. We know who did it: a radical muslim who believes it is willed by his god to eliminate american culture. This is NOT relating to ANY events. Radical muslims despise the entire way that they view american culture, even though most haven't even been to america.

sidetrack: Did you know what the terrorists watched before they attacked the US? Baywatch. They don't hate us because of our politics, they hate our culture and they view our culture through television. Baywatch "hyped" them up for their attack against the united states.

Many people died and it was pretty much a kick in the balls for the US. We FINALLY come to our senses and realize how much of a threat radical Muslims pose against the future of the US and other countries.

Where do the majority of radical muslims live? The middle east.

Now why attack Iraq? Well it's simple yet complicated. Iraq has an absolutely insane amount of oil as you all know. Something you might not have known- what other natural resource is incredibly abundant under their soil? Water.

What can you do with both oil and water? Natural gas = fertilizer. Fertilizer + water ======= you do the math.

With the ability to have incredible economic benifits, Iraq has the ability to become the greatest nation in the middle east. Iraqis also are one of the most well educated people in the middle east- and they are also not lazy.

Now we've got means for a great economy, people who will make that economy happen- but we've got a problem. Dictator from hell. So the United states sees a chance to remove the dictator, take out as many terrorists who would make it even harder to spread democracy to iraq. Once Iraq becomes a democratic society and has the economic resources to become wealthy and has people who will work for it, whats next?

Ripple effect. Iraq becomes a great nation, the ripple spreads through the middle east. Once things get straightened out there, people will start to realize, hey democracy aint so bad! And once surrounding countries see how well iraq is doing, it spreads to them as well.

The entire Iraq war can be summed up in those two words ripple effect.

There is ABSOLUTELY no FUCKING way to negotiate with terrorists. How the hell are you supposed to tell someone "hey, your god is wrong, so please dont kill us, aight?"

Sure we could have captured Bin Laden, thrown him in jail- then what? We'd have nothing but more radical muslims spawning from his wake. Through this ripple effect that will be sent through the middle east, it changes radical ideals in bulk.

Of course, this is a HUGE generalization. This isn't going to happen over night. This is something that is going to evolve over time, and take time to set in.

Still I know that this will not be enough for you guys, and i know this isnt going to change any of your opinions--- im not trying to- but it sounds like the right idea to over half of the country. I know I'll probably get torn to shreds for posting this, but this isn't a dig on anyone, just a republican point of view on the war in Iraq, and after all, republicans did start the war.

Now I'm getting a bit faklempt! Discuss amongst yourselves...here's a topic....why republicans support the iraq war!



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Message 21/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  08:48 AM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

CydoniaCell

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i don't believe he would have gotten in there...

and, because of that, I believe he would not take us elsewhere. I'm not convinvced that this president my fellows have picked for me won't take us to another country. Not at all... see? The time machine doens't completely allow for honesty... cause If you and I were mates, and I had you over for the first time and came out of the kitchen to find you throwing shit at my neighbors, or pilfering my ashtray, or beating on my kid... I wouldn't have you back... but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have anyone else over, ever.

so what's happened matters... it is in fact, the most imprtant thing. This election over here wasn't about who was right for the job, it was about how WRONG Bush is. But in the end, that's really why Kerry lost, not enough about him to bring people out. Shrug

Frankly, this election (and to a lesser extant the last one) wasn;t about the candidates at all. We're not capable oif that right now. There's a culture war going on in America right now. Very different polarized cultures living int he same space. Like the Homo Sapiens and the Neanderthals living togehter for century's, but eventualy it had to come. We have diametricaly opposed opinions about what's right...

I know how that sounds, and I'm not happy about it... but you can see by my posts I'm a part of it... I can't stand the narrow, selfsish greed anymore... and neither can A LOT of other people. And my neighbors feel the same about me, I'm without morals, godless and a terrorist synpathizer. Until we can all get past that shit, we're gonna keep wrecking things.. but how doi I get past behavior I find moraly repugnant... and how do they get past the same?

I'm heartened at least, that Andrew seems to be an issues conservative... he hasn't made mention at all of the gay marriage ban in our country (And I am NOT inviting him to). Frankly it's gay marriage that won this for Bush... We have a huge moralistic, self righteous population that feels that there's not enough of their god, and their beliefs in their country anymore... and they think Bush will return uis to a time when prayer, simplicity and HETEROSEXUALITY where the only tolerable norms.

but hey...

thanks for asking seriously.. it's real easy in this atmosphere to get cuaght up in the militant "it should be obvious" mindset...

Really

e



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Message 22/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  08:49 AM     Edit: 04-Nov-04  |  09:24 AM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

cheddar

Posts: 673

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HI Andrew, you are making me look like an early adopter

"September 11th...We know who did it" - Do we? there is a possibility that it was a missile strike on the pentagon, and if thats being covered up then we can implicate the US gov in this action, but if we stick with your assumption and remove the 'group definitions" then it was a spoilt rich kids son (ring any bells?)

"Radical muslims despise the entire way that they view american culture, even though most haven't even been to america."- think about the cost of your lifestyle, see the link above and tell me that you have no questions about the worth of the American Way

"radical Muslims pose against the future of the US and other countries." and how was this threat expressed, where were the massive killing fields, how did we identify this threat, where were the wmd, what are the comparative homicide figures for muslim and christian communities, how many people are being killed by muslims based cultures and how many by christian based cultures, who is the threat?

"Now why attack Iraq?" I also suggest - easy hate figure, finish off dads failure, oil, more defence spending, distraction from failure in Afganistan"

"Sure we could have captured Bin Laden, thrown him in jail- then what? We'd have nothing but more radical muslims spawning from his wake. " And just what is killing 100,000 Iraq's doing to the average teenage boy over there

"... This is something that is going to evolve over time, and take time to set in." So history will tell, so even if it is wrong we cannot comment on it now, so all of these actions are correct and we cannot understand the big picture, cruel to be kind Andrew? the more cruel - the more kind.

The fundamental problem here Andrew is that the US rarely travels, yet it increasingly directly influences the world. So you make judgements about other nations without the experience of their culture. OK the US and western culture do great things but the philosophy is not tennable, not sustainable, its based on consumption. More generally we destroy that which don't understand and fear and on the other side we bully those with less power than us, OK this is human but we know the size of the earth, its contents - these are not heady days of limitless horizons and discovery but increasingly they appear to be days of greed and consolidation on an individual, national and cultural level.

The use of the "Radical Muselim" by the Bush administration is a defining moment in a shrinking world. Its a mechanism to create a 'bogey man' to blame and the fact that Kerry backed this up the US voters fell for it means that humanity have learned nothing and for all of our science and art we are virus

Andrew you cannot sing of pain, you cannot sing of brother



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Message 23/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  10:44 AM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

k

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oh great -

But Andrew - I DIDN'T insult you - I replied sensibly - so i'd appreciate you taking that honourably and attempting to reply - here's what I wrote again

----------------------

I get what you're saying Andrew, so you support the idea that you can bring a stable civilised society thru economic means - which is probably true, no-one riots when they are well fed and happy


However - what's happened in Afghanistan since the war ended? - nothing, except they are wacking out herion onto the global market again like it's going out of fashion.

the hard facts are that the USA economy is absolutely dire at the moment, the US doesnt have the money to regenerate Afghanistan or Iraq.

ergo - no ripple effect.

Instead all we've got is MILLIONS MORE raving anti-US nutters & the USA is gradualy isolating itself globaly, and you're economy cant take that mate.


then what? - dude, you say you care about your country, i dont think you've thought this thru LONGTERM

tell me, as a republican, HOW is all this going to be paid for? - if youre economy is going down,and you need to spend MORE. not only on the war itself and international policing but also 'rebuilding' to cause the ripple effect and stabilise a place

How is Bush going to do it?

I submit therefore that WHATEVER your BELIEFS in this area, the PLAN is UN-workable.


The usa is mired in a economy-draining 'war' with no way out except a climb down or a commitment to massive spending on a permenant occupying army abroad. - at the end of the day the only relevent thing here surely is - when the dust settles THERE'S STILL NO GAME PLAN.


---------------------

SO - I ask SERIOUSLY - I'm asking you are a republican supporter - and here's your chance to tell people exactly why you voted for a continuation of the current policy

How is Bush going to do it? - resaurrect the economy AND fight the war on terror AND rebuild Iraq

PLEASE take this seriously - I am prepared to treat you with enuff respect, and listen to your Party's plans ....so...


How is Bush going to do it?

and everyone else can shutup for a while (please) and let the poor guy answer

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 24/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  11:43 AM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

k

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sorry - i'll start a new thread - i just didnt want the question to get lost in a mire of mudslinging - but you carry on mudslinging - lol - i'll pop this in a new thread

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 25/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  02:11 PM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

nutoniom

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out of sheer curiosity, do you brits have an alternative to blair ? election in a year or something, right ?



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Message 26/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  03:06 PM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

xoxos

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hey dickwad, that 'ripple effect..' you might want to send some of it round tucson way.. cos we only know it as te "trickle up economics"

you're fucking fooling yourself. fucking idiot dickwad, thinking american culure brings prosperity.. ever fucknig been to the u.s.???!?!?!?!?!



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Message 27/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  03:15 PM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

xoxos

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sitar! i didn't think you had an bitter bone in your body.

glad to see it, here i stand.



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Message 28/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  03:47 PM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

k

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nope we dont have another option in the UK - the opposition is some retard fuckwit who looks like dracula and is about as popular as a fart in a submarine (he was one of thatchers old cronies)

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 29/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  05:33 PM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

Influx

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as popular as a far in a submarine. damn. thats..uh...not very popular!



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Message 30/38                 Date: 04-Nov-04  @  05:48 PM   -   RE: The Iraq War- History Lesson

k

Posts: 12353

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yeah well.....

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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